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Comments

  1. says

    There are still some important provisions that take place as early as June of this year. Most notable to me (because I buy my own private health coverage) is that I can’t get kicked off a plan just because I get sick. That’s a big deal to independent contractors and small business owners.

  2. says

    You’re right! I thought I had included the fact that recissions will be disallowed unless the insurance company can prove outright fraud. But apparently I didn’t. There was a lot of stuff to cover in that bill :)

  3. says

    It is so important that everyone has health insurance that I never once thought about taxes or if it would cost me a little more. How can anyone be so selfish that they wouldn’t want to protect the health of everyone in our country. That is life and death which money can’t buy.

    • Anna Bender says

      Jennifer, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

      • Jeremy says

        I will pay what it takes to keep me and my family alive, I however shouldn’t have to spend more to keep other people alive. It is a darwin theory of survival of the fittest. Get a job and get insurance if you want it, if you don’t you can die.

        • Kenni Judd says

          Nonsense. As a preliminary matter, there’s no proof that the PPACA will in fact cost you more. The requirement that 80/85% of premium dollars actually be spent on health care may well save you $$.

          But more fundamentally, the ability to get insurance shouldn’t depend on one’s employment situation. With the unemployment rate where it stands, it should be obvious that there are many people who would like to have jobs, but don’t. “Job lock” (being tied to your job to keep your insurance) also discourages small business startups (which would create more jobs) as well as early retirement for those who could otherwise afford it (thus freeing up jobs for that first group I mentioned).

        • Betty C says

          Jeremy you should go straight to hell with your no compassion for your fellow Americans. You are just down right unpatriotic period. You deserve nothing and hope one day soon you will be down and out and financially broke and then maybe you will gain some human form of humility but I so doubt it. You are totally a lost ignorant and selfish person who has sunk to his lowest.

        • S Trex says

          In response to Jeremy’s comment, I am one of those who are trying to get insurance but they(the insurance company) are holding me back due to the pre-existing clause. Don’t blame everyone some of us are trying to get insurance to keep ourselves alive!!!

    • Lisa says

      You can only say this if you can spare a little more. My family has had to become vehemently against this plan not because we don’t care, but because we literally can’t afford it. If we had ANY money to spare, out daughter would have gotten at least a small Christmas gift. We are so paycheck to paycheck that we literally couldn’t spare $5 for Christmas!! We already don’t have cable, don’t have internet (we pick up nearby free signals), our ONE luxury is that we have a phone, and I don’t know if that’s a luxury when my husband’s work needs to be able to reach him. We make just too much to qualify for subsidized child care, and with a disabled child, we can’t afford it on our own. Our daughter is covered for health care by a state plan. We don’t have any coverage ourselves. We don’t like it, but we dislike the idea of not eating even more. It’s Christmas, and my husband and I are fasting to save money.

      Yet people like you will say to people like me how can I put saving money over the health of others. F-you. I want to put my SURVIVAL over others. Surviving is our key instinct, and between me or someone else, then I’m putting me and my family first. We are already hungry.

  4. says

    Jennifer with all do respect it has nothing to do with NOT wanting to help others, and NO I don’t want to give the Government anymore of my money to waste. I really hate when people classify it as selfish to disagree with this over reaching 2,000 some page health care bill, that will put our kids in debt. But hey as long as your insurance is cheaper right? I think it could be said that the ones benefiting the most are selfish since mostly anyone is able to get health care already.

    You’re also ignoring the fact that people still die in other countries where the care is universal. It’s going to save a few at the expense of others so no lives will actually be saved. Ever heard of rationing care? How can people (you) so blindly trust a Government that has proven to be most inefficient in other areas of finance and “helping” others. What makes you think that them managing and overseeing “this” project will yield different results?

    I’ll admit, the gift wrap sounds great but the package contained inside is pure crap. Read it!

    • Jay says

      Brad, I couldn’t have said it better!

    • Betty C says

      You are so right, I want to help others but to trust our corrupt and greedy government to do so is just plain stupid to let them handle anything. They will make a good thing turn bad really quick.

  5. says

    The problem is that someone will have to pay for the additional debt and it is likely to be our kids and grandkids. Government cannot mandate efficiency and there are costs involved which will become clear over time, hopefully before it is too late

    • beth says

      Our kids and grandchildren are already paying. I have a daughter who has worked for restaurants since she is 15, she is now thirty and she can not work anymore because of nerve damage in her arm. The company she worked for put her out on unpaid medical leave, she can not return until she gets a clean med check. She has no insurance so she can’t. The restaurant knew what they were doing because the didn’t fire her so no unemployment. She can not get a job, because restaurant is all she knows. Another daughter married with a child and a recently separated Marine war veteran, both work and still live below the poverty level. No insurance for any of the three.

      • sue says

        Sue,
        Check with your state. Most states have high risk pools that guarantee insurance no matter what your health.

        • Dean says

          Well, Sue, here in NC we have high-risk coverage…this article having been taken from a WRAL website:

          Raleigh, N.C. — Some uninsured North Carolina residents will soon have another way to obtain affordable health insurance.

          As part of the national health care reform effort, the state will launch a federally subsidized high-risk pool on July 1.

          For people with pre-existing medical conditions, purchasing individual insurance can be prohibitively expensive. Participation in the high-risk pool could lower premiums by about 80 percent, from an average of $3,000 down to $600 a month, said Michael Keough, executive director of Inclusive Health, which will operate the federal pool in North Carolina.

          I don’t like to make assumptions about Beth’s daughter, but a typical out-of-work-on -medical-leave-restaurant-worker is not going to be able to afford $600.00 a month for high risk health insurance.

  6. Jill says

    Brad – You can’t fix something by doing nothing. Unless you’re making $200K a year, you won’t see an increase in taxes. So, if you’re above that mark, BOOHOO.

    And most people can get EMERGENCY health care.. (People with no insurance don’t get cancer treatments or organ transplants) which WE PAY FOR in the form of high premiums which are in response to hospitals having to overcharge for everything to cover it when people can’t pay the bill.

    Usually, the only hospital that will treat patients who can’t pay is the county hospital and they only give the bare minimum of care. Hospitals can and do turn people away.

    • Jeremy says

      I love people who hate people who are successful and make $200,000 a year and think that they deserve to pay more in taxes. You people are the reason our country is struggling because you all want a handout.

      • Betty C says

        you are a totaly idiot and deserve every penny you have you ignorant bastard@!!

  7. Jill says

    Arohan – RTFA – “The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that this bill will actually pay for itself — and ***reduce the deficit*** in 10 years.”

  8. says

    @ LO Woods – There are two things wrong with your statement.

    Saying who cares it is 4 years from now is selfish and irresponsible, but seemingly popular amongst those up to their eyeballs in debt. “Who cares, we don’t have to pay for it now!”

    Declaring insurance companies as the bad guys because they take ALL the risk is a huge mistake. The reason why insurance rules are there is to protect the insurer, you know, the one paying the hospital bills. The rules you should be worried about are the regulations that Washington put in place to cause prices to skyrocket in the first place. You are mad at the wrong group of people. I know, I know, Obama told you to hate insurance companies, I understand. People do that to take the focus off of themselves. The government is the problem not the solution.

  9. Joshua says

    You laid this out so nice and clear. I loved it. By any chance, do you know who are the 5% of the population who not be covered by this health insurance bill? I couldn’t stand knowing I am penalizing a segment of society who still can not afford health insurance. But if it is people whose income is above $250,000 and chose not to be covered by health insurance, I would not feel remorse if these people are fined.

  10. says

    That’s right. Anything the government does that helps poor people is wrong. When I earn my money it is mine, mine, mine, and I hate to pay taxes that are wasted on roads and ambulances and harbors and airports and military defense. Mine, I say, mine!

    We can spend our own money better than some old government can spend it any day because we are free American adults, and if you keep wasting my money on helping other people I am going to hold my breath until I turn blue and then I will tell your mommy on you. And I’ll cry sooooo loud that everybody will think you’re beating me with a baseball bat.

    So there!

  11. Joshua says

    Oops, I read one comment, and remembered Jill, not Miranda. Sorry!

  12. andy says

    Brad,

    Did you not remember reading the part where due to a slight increase in taxes (single digit percentage points for people making over $200k, don’t worry, they can afford the extra $500 a year) and money coming from pharmaceutical and insurance companies, this bill actually pays for itself with a slight surplus, thus contributing about 200 billion dollars off the deficit by 2019. Aka. NOT passing on debt to our children. As a side note: Mass passed a law just like the one in the bill about making everyone get health insurance or be fined, with some state money available to help people pay if they couldn’t. It was highly successful and only increased the entire state budget by 2.2%. [people like to site the current economic troubles in the Massachusetts state government on this plan, but actually it was the overall economic collapse we have been experiencing for the past 2 years, they'd be broke without these expenses. look at the numbers yourself]

    I suppose the government also wastes its money on the highway system. Or the EPA. Or OSHA. Suppose no one benefits immensely from medicare, medicaid and social security either.

    “I think it could be said that the ones benefiting the most are selfish since mostly anyone is able to get health care already.” haha, you are funny. This is true as long as you are relatively well off (as in firmly in the middle to upper-middle class. aka at least 3-4x the poverty level) AND have had a lifetime of good health and plan to continue to have good health. Why else do you think anyone cares about the pre-exisiting condition and being dropped for getting sick sections of this bill?

  13. Len says

    Brad the fact that you believe this: ” mostly anyone is able to get health care already” makes me understand why people would fight this bill. It is not true! And, I am talking about working people as well as those not working.

  14. says

    Jill – You can’t fix something by doing the wrong thing either. What makes you think this will help? What makes you think that people with cancer will get automatic treatment? People with cancer should get treatment but giving the Government the reigns is ludicrous. It’s no different than giving a drunk a drink and expecting him to not drink it. The government sucks at everything!

    What the Congressional Budget Office says means squat to me and to most people! Do you know how far off they usually are on anything than costs money? If not take a look into what they projected for social security.

    What you blame on high prices is only a PART of the problem that cause high prices. What about Illegal immigrants who suck the system dry? No one seems to be pointing fingers at them, probably because it isn’t politically correct to do so.

    I would rather pay for my own health care as we have been doing, as expensive at is it, than lose my right to choose what’s right for my family. What if the Government told you that you HAD to go out and buy only American cars? Would that be good too? You think it is okay to rob from people who make over $200,000 but I do not. It is theft!

    If people stopped living beyond their means they may be able to afford frickin health care on their own. You make wrong decisions and there are consequences. To say the Government is responsible for something each of us should be more responsible in getting for ourselves is completely idiotic. If people want health insurance, get rid of your new cars with those huge payments. Stop paying the credit card companies most of your paycheck. That’s common sense, and common sense is far from anything coming out of Washington!!

    Oh and it sounds like you didn’t know that there is special disability insurance one could buy for the awful day that they find out they have cancer. It’s called financial planning for a reason! There are things in place for people to buy to balance out their family plan and ensure that if something does go wrong they are covered.

    It;s not called, make horrible financial decisions and then expect the Government to put in place a near 3,000 page bill that no one has read, has put our children in debt, and really only promises to make things worse.

  15. says

    Jill – As I said, the real costs will become clear over time. CBO does a good job of estimating but it is still an estimation. As a long term watcher of statistics and data that the government doles out I can assure you that they are no more accurate than the rest of us.

    Now here is the thing. You may be right that it may not make the deficits worse over long term but that will only happen if we or our kids end up paying more in taxes. Either way, someone will pay.

  16. jake says

    Fuk u socialistic bastards

  17. Matteo says

    We europeans simply can’t get why some americans are against this health care reform. We see public health care as a citizenship right, if you get in a hospital in any european country you don’t have to show a credit card to get the cures you deserve. To be honest, this reform looks very “mild” from our point of view, but it’s a good start.
    Just my 2 cents.

  18. says

    Len, I know it’s not absolutely true for every circumstance or every family. How about this? Find a way to cover THOSE people when the time arises. Create an additional much smaller bill, more focused on those individuals, rather than change a complete system because of a few problems. The majority of Americans DO NOT want this government mandate. Washington didn’t listen to America, which is why they had to strong arm it through to passage. You’re okay with that?

    I care about people who deserve help. I know they are out there and I feel for them. But you don’t change an entire system for a small minority of people. You add something to protect just them on a case by case basis, and to be honest I don’t think the Government should be in control of that either. They cause more trouble than they ever fix. Isn’t that obvious?

    Another thing no one is talking about is the fact that unemployment has done a lot to cause a health care crisis. People lose jobs and lose their insurance as well, and that is horrible. that needs to change, and there are ways to do it, but this is not it.

  19. Len says

    Brad, I am sorry to say but the things you mention are not accessible to everyone. Everyone just does not have the financial foundation (parents were rich) or earning ability (most people make less than $40K/year) to buy those things. And, most of them do not have new cars and the credit cards are used to put food on the table because the salary does not. I am sure to you those people deserve what they get, but every thing is not equal in the US. Not everyone can get to six figure salaries or close to it. I do not think they should be lifted up, but they should have good health. I do not want to buy there clothes, food or housing. I just want them to love as healthy as possible.

    • Jay says

      Len,

      Financial planning IS available to anyone, regardless of how “rich” they may be. Have you actually sat down and looked into these options? I assume the answer would be no. If you had, you would find out that there is a plethora of information and policies available.

      The biggest problem is that people will gripe and moan all day long, but when it comes down to it- they don’t lift a finger to help themselves.

    • Jeremy says

      When I made minimum wage and tips I paid for a healthcare policy through AFLAC. I didn’t rich parents, I used my money wisely. I wasn’t buying cigarettes, beer, and diapers because I made logical decision that I couldn’t afford those luxuries. You “poor” people that don’t have the same opportunities as “rich” people crack me up. You went to school, you have the option to choose.

  20. Josh says

    I agree with Brad 120%. Thanks to Obama and his “unique” way of “helping” our country is appualing. The health bill will ultimaly ruin this country unless drastic changes are not made. If President Washington were standing in front of congress today he would say WTF?!?!

  21. says

    Andy, So you approve of people getting fined for not wanting to pay for what the Government has insisted they pay for.

    Again you are relying on what the Government is saying they are gonna do instead of looking at their already shady past. Stealing from those that make more than 200k is hardly admirable or ethical for that matter.

    This bill will eventually kill the private industry since it cannot compete with the money tree that the Government will pull from. Have you not paid any attention at all at how the Government handles money, EVEN WHEN they tax us into oblivion already? I’ll say it again. What makes you think they will behave this time?”

    All of the arguments for the passage of this monstrosity seem to be based on a faith in our Government that they have not earned. It sounds like people are avoiding the obvious.

    Would you hire the Government to run your business? Then why would you hire them to manage your health care?

    • Kenni Judd says

      NO ONE is being taxed into oblivion these days, at least not by the FEDERAL government. The top marginal income tax rate has, historically, been 2 or even 3 times what it is now for decades at a time.

      Those who live in States which have their own income tax need to address their high taxes at the State level. Likewise, local taxes need to be addressed with the local taxing authority. But please don’t try to cry “poor, poor pitiful me” over 2.8% on your unearned income if you’re above the threshold. It doesn’t wash.

  22. Len says

    I disagree with this statement: “This bill will eventually kill the private industry since it cannot compete with the money tree that the Government will pull from”

    UPS and FedEx do fine against the Post Office

  23. Len says

    Also there is a difference between regulating and running the health insurance industry.

  24. andy says

    To brad again.

    Yep its those illegal immigrants dude. damn brown people just taking all your jobs and your benefits and pretty soon you’ll be forced to speak spanish, freaking bad enough we have a president who’s skin is darker than yours and has a funny name which sorta sounds like Osama [btw, Brad isn't a very native american sounding name]. Umm, except no illegal immigrants will be granted health care in this system in any way shape or form.

    And re: the cars. Its funny you mention that, because actually, we DO have to buy car insurance to legally register and license a car. Ever been hit by a driver without insurance? You are pretty much completely screwed to fork over the bill yourself. Hmm, that sounds familiar. Oh yeah, cuz right now if I have no health insurance and go to the ER and have no money to pay, you get to fork over the bill yourself. I wonder how we solved that problem.. thats right, making it the law that you had to have insurance or get a fine.

    And jeez i mean really. If poor people would just stop buying the new cars (that they can’t get because they have zero credit, a low paying job and no money and thus would never get a loan approved) and just accept the minimum wage, barely able to put a roof over their heads and food on their table let alone shit like insurance or doctors, we’d all be a lot better off.

    And the bill is 1900 pages. not over 2000, and not over 3000. For comparison, Bush’s budget bill was 1500 pages long in 2007, and im pretty sure it had a bunch more stuff in it that was wasting huge amounts of your cash on bad ideas, making this bill seem like a drop in the bucket.

    • tinamedrano says

      its not just the brown people,Iam a nurse and iam white,and I see more white meth addict moms delivering baby after baby that is a product of crack and methwhy after 3 crack and meth moms,why i dont under stand if goverment is in our business so much that they are not interested in sterilizing these women ,the babies end up costing the hospital millions of tax payers money ,and on top of that those babies grow up to have mental problems and cost the system all through out theyre lives.my son is against my thoughts but i see these babies and if this could be prevented. its mainly blacks and white women ,and the mexicans are usully yes poor but hard workers and unfortunatley once theyre kid is born and grow they are introduced by the western world sins,but most come here and are hard workers,

      • Tina simpson medrano says

        promise not an idiot did not check spelling before sending lol

  25. says

    Len – I make nothing close to 100,000 a year, YET, but I know that disability insurance is VERY cheap and worth every penny! How about we educate people about money and finance instead of telling them that debt is the answer and the Government will provide basic necessities even though they are perfectly capable but don’t.

    Better yet, I am doing a book review on Give Me Get Me Buy Me and it seems fitting to what we are discussing right now. A society that thinks that everything should be handed to them. Entitlements! The answer is to educate people not give the impression that we have no faith in them to do for themselves. we have to get people to believe they have the ability to do bigger things for themselves. This is equivalent to writing off a 5th grader because he doesn’t quite understand math like the others. “It’s okay, not everyone understands math!” There is no encouragement in that and I think that is what society as a whole is missing. They have given up on others instead of trying to help them. Education is the answer not 3,000 pages of unread crap! People need incentive and encouragement, so let’s give it to them.

    I have really enjoyed all of this back and forth. Thanks everyone for not turning it into an ugly slug fest. We obviously disagree, and that is fine. It boggles my mind, but that’s the way things are.

    • Suzanna Chafin says

      HERE HERE! You sir, have said everything that I agree with 100%! Keep standing up for what is factual: “People need incentive and encouragement, so let’s give it to them.”

      Cannot agree more, just baffles me!

  26. Len says

    Brad thank you for the same kind of back and forth. I hate when people cannot talk to each other. Even when they disagree.

  27. says

    Robin, you have grossly misrepresented the opposing view. Great contribution!

    Is NOT giving a drunk a drink selfish?

    You apparently think that all of our money goes to wonderful things that help society. yes we need roads and police and fire fighters, but have you ever in your life read how much the Government takes in. AND have you EVER in your life seen what they spend it on.

    It has been proven that the Government wastes more money than anyone private organization or business doing the exact same things. Why? Because the Government is spending other people’s money with NO ACCOUNTABILITY, and part of the reason is because people like you sat things like what you said. you are keeping the lie alive and doing so by saying others do not care about people and want to hoard their money for themselves. Apparently you have never read my blog because anyone who has knows that to be a lie. I plan to build wealth so I can put the Government out of a job by offering real help!!

  28. says

    It was my pleasure Len. I love everyone, even those that disagree. I want to help everyone, even those that disagree. We need disagreement to come to solutions. I feel that if Congress would have listened to other alternatives then this would have been something we could have all got behind. I do not see right or left, so I am not married to one party or the other. The truth is I almost voted for Obama believe it or not. I eventually came to my senses and he has shown me that I did the right thing.

    I don’t want to see the destruction of this great nation, and I feel that the decisions that are being made in Washington are killing incentive, growing Government, and putting this country in a terrible financial situation.

    If this bill isn’t going to help anyone until after Obama was already gone, why was it so important to push it through without the support of America? Why wasn’t it more important to be focusing on unemployment? It seems like that is the more important need right now. This bill wasn’t about helping anyone “right now”, it was about the Government getting more power and control.

    I hope you all have a wonderful evening. I just realized I wrote about 10 blog posts above. LOL Good night all!

  29. Peregrine says

    @ Brad – the non-partisan CBO analysis showed that the bill will actually decrease the defecit. Check your facts, and go have a drink of your government provided tap water while you drive to work on a government provided highway. Also, everyone dies. I’m not sure what your point about people dying in other countries is, I’m pretty sure everyone does that sometime.

  30. Frank says

    I agree 100% with Brad. This is one of the worst mistakes of the US Government, very close to the 1913 Federal Reserve Act.

    Care will be rationed, elderly will pay higher premiums, and I’ll have to buy insurance even though I’m a broke college student and don’t want it. And if I don’t? Penalities; fines; even possible jail-time. Freakin’ ridiculous. This is socialism at its best. What happened to “We the people”? “We the people” don’t even want this (the majority, at least). Sigh. It’s only going to get worse from here…

    • Kenni Judd says

      More nonsense. NOTHING in THIS law will stop those who can afford it from simply paying for whatever care they desire (whether they need it or not), if it’s otherwise available. Some things are simply not available.

      Care is already rationed in several ways. The first level of rationing is financial. The second is availability. If you can’t afford it and don’t have insurance that will cover it, you won’t get an organ transplant. But even with coverage or the ability to pay out of pocket, you may not get it for other reasons.

  31. says

    Peregrine – My point was that people in other countries who have “FREE” care die because the government in question decides that their particular sickness is not worth covering. they decide who lives and dies and when. So the argument that this health care bill will help the sick is a complete lie. Check your facts!

    the analysis done by almost anyone is hardly how it plays out. It’s just an analysis. I am using FACTS from other countries around the world that use FREE health care for everyone. You want to know what most of them have in common? THEY ARE ALL BROKE!

  32. Lazlo Toth says

    “You’re also ignoring the fact that people still die in other countries where the care is universal.”

    You’ve made me see the light, Brad! I won’t accept anything from a national health care reform except for EVERLASTING YOUTH AND IMMORTALITY, preferably in the form of government-funded transformation into a being of pure energy.

    Of course, then I’d still be an EVIL SOCIALIST being of pure light, so maybe not. Thanks for the great advice, Brad!

  33. Bill Warden says

    Brad, is our government a lot more wasteful than others or something. I’m wondering whether you have ever talked with anyone from a country that has universal health care (Canada, France, UK… almost anywhere but here, in fact). It might be enlightening for you to do so. Ask some Canadians whether they would like to trade their healths system for the 2009 US health care system, or someone in UK. If you have any friends or associates outside the USA, you may be surprised about how they think of their health system (waiting lists and all) in comparison to ours. Ours is much more expensive, more difficult to work with, offers less security, yet has average outcomes worse than many other developed nation. People die in other countries with universal health care. More die here, unless of coarse they are rich or have agreed to enslave themselves to a job with a big company.

  34. says

    Andy, you lost credibility as soon as you threw the race card out. to say I am against this crap because I am racist against a black president and illegal immigrants is…what a person says that has nothing to contribute to the conversation. Thanks for your meaningless contribution!

    I simply stated a fact and it has nothing to do with the color of their skin. It has to do with the fact that they are killing and bankrupting hospitals across the land. You may think that’s okay but I don’t. Would you let a complete stranger break into your house, eat all your food, use all your resources and then splitting, leaving you to fork the bill. After all he’s a human, and he probably is poor. He might have a family he’s trying to feed so his crime was okay.

    If I’m racist and not logical, then you are an idiot and not reasonable! I’m glad not everyone replied with such foolishness as you.

    P.S. Someone can oppose the President and not be racist, just like someone can oppose someone illegally entering this country and depleting our resources.

  35. Rodney says

    Hey Brad, did you missed the part where the law is supposed to reduce the deficit in 10 years?

  36. Rodney says

    And I missed all these extra comments. Whoops.

  37. says

    Bill you are delusional, and need some enlightenment yourself. I know that people from around the world come here to get procedures done. Why do you think that is?

    Because waiting lists cause people to die too. Isn;t that what we’re trying to solve here? We’re trying to give some people a better quality of life, while taking it from others who have been deemed by a Government out of money to be not important. therefor it is not solving anything only moving the curse of death to someone else lower on the list. Great plan!

  38. says

    Rodney, I did see that. I can barely keep up with the comments myself. LOL

    The problem for me is that no matter who does the analysis, they are almost ALWAYS wrong by a long shot.

  39. andy says

    The bill helped people today.

    This bill had an average approval rating of around 50%. Sure, no republicans voted for it, but that is really a political play by the republican party. Both sides use that kind of tactic all the time in politics of all levels.

    There were no other ideas presented during the formulation of this plan, just rabid opposition. “They are gonna kill grandma” is not an alternative plan, and that seems to be the only counter-plan I’d heard, besides do nothing. I agree that this bill isn’t the end solution to our health care issue. A very intense and detail study of how health care systems in other countries work is needed. There was actually a very good documentary (I think it was a PBS Frontline thing, could be wrong. I know netflix streaming has 2 very similar ones that I always confuse) on this issue where they went to 6-7 other countries all over europe and asia with various methods of healthcare systems. Very informative even if only to illuminate alternative plans other than Canada’s and England’s systems.

    Having the most expensive healthcare, but one of the worst ratings on healthcare received of the developed nations [37th in the world] is something we can definitely do better. But this bill isn’t the comprehensive healthcare take-over most people seem to think. There isn’t any public option, the closest thing that remained are the exchanges which are still owned by the insurance companies.

    I make $16K a year (40/hrs a week @ ~$9/hr. aka asst manager – retail of a store with an average of $12 million/yr). That works out to a paycheck every 2 weeks of around $550. Rent for the smallest fairly down-scale single bedroom bachelor apartment around here runs about $600/mo. Electric/heating/water/sewer/trash/basic phoneline run an average of about $200 a month. Car payment is $100 a month (i drive a used 01 basic model honda accord w/ 200k miles. reliable and good on gas. not big, new, expensive or fancy). Car insurance is about $80 a month. Gas for the car is about $80-100 a month.
    So far that leaves me with exactly $40 a month for food. and zero money for savings, insurance, clothes, food, emergency expenses, fun.

    I have no credit cards.

    I’m sorry, but I am all for this bill. And to complain that people making $1,000,000 a year will have to pay an extra $7000 annually in taxes REALLY makes me start to tear up a little bit, the poor souls.

  40. Mike says

    I’m sick of hearing people’s opinions who don’t understand this bill. It forces everyone to have what I would call a “cadillac” plan and will dramatically increase consumption of health care services. I am self employed and have a high deductible plan that costs $300/mo for my family of 3. We make smart decisions and stay healthy and make sure we have enough savings to cover the deductible for catastrophic events. With this bill I will be required to buy a plan that covers just about everything with just a small co-pay – and the CBO estimates the minimum plan cost will be at least $1000/mo. Our family income is > 80k/yr so no subsidies for us. So my health care costs are going to more than triple. How are we supposed to afford an extra $1000 a month? I am still waiting for someone to explain why this is a good thing. Everyone is going to be going to the doctor every time they have the flu. No one is going to know what anything actually costs since they aren’t paying for it, and costs are going to skyrocket.

    • Kenni Judd says

      How do you figure? People will still have deductibles and co-pays. The young and healthy can elect catastrophic coverage only, to keep their premiums down.

      The good news is, I won’t be paying for their catastrophes, which currently cost me $1,000/year according to the best figures I’ve seen.

      And people SHOULD go to the doctor when they have the flu. “CDC estimates that from the 1976-1977 season to the 2006-2007 flu season, flu-associated deaths ranged from a low of about 3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people. ” http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

  41. Kevin says

    @Brad

    “…since mostly anyone is able to get health care already.”

    You’re not out of touch at all. Do you actually know anyone 18-30, for example? Most of my college aged peers (and those who never went as well) don’t have insurance.

    I’m just thankful that of all my friends, the one who just found out she has cancer is still covered by her parents plan. For now..

  42. andy says

    You sir played the race card, I just caricatured it. Illegal immigrants do not strip the hospitals. They aren’t breaking into my house and stealing my stuff. They aren’t eating all my food and then leaving.

    Better 2x check that research:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE57G53I20090817

    You also cite that other countries have ‘death panels’ or some sort of system of deciding ‘who lives and who dies and when’ as fact. I would very much like to see your evidence of this fact. I would also inquire whether that, even if true, it is any different than the S.O.P.’s of many insurance companies, most notoriously HMO’s.
    “Oops, sorry, you didn’t dot one of your I’s on the blue form. Payment Declined.”

    And FYI, most other countries healthcare systems are not broke.

    People globe-trot to see world-class specialists all the time, not just to America. We do however have several highly reknown medical schools in America which attract all sorts of brilliant doctoral students from all over the globe. Speaking from my experiences when my mother had to have 2 neurosurguries at Johns Hopkins, many of these top class doctors came here from elsewhere. This IS something we do right.

    Also, I believe I have refuted many of your points with logical arguments, the one of which you chose to respond to was a bit of sardonic humor. But I mean, I’m not writing a book review for my blog, so I must be an idiot.

  43. says

    Nice summary – there’s so much involved. I just learned today, too, of more of the “fine print” in the bill – like calorie labels on menu items of big restaurant chains. When people see that chocolate milkshake at McDonald’s is 800+ calories, it might be the fast food giants’ wallets most affected (and rightly so)…

  44. alberto says

    You cannot put a price on your loss of liberty. If the government now has the power to mandate this, they will not stop here. Mark my words. Next stop: Forcing you to buy hybrid cars. Forcing you to eat certain foods and not others. I smell boiling frogs….

  45. andy says

    @Mike

    I’m sick of hearing peoples opinions who just don’t understand this bill too. Or that even took the time to read the article.

    ” This provision doesn’t kick in until 2014, so you have some time to consider your health insurance options, including a high deductible plan paired with a Health Savings Account.”.

    Your current insurance won’t have to change, in fact the idea is that most people will be buying the same kind of plan you already have and start a HSA to cover the deductible.

  46. G says

    Brad,
    HCR is not single payer health care or Universal HC. If we are still buying be it of ones own decision or government mandate its still coming from a “Private Insurance Comp” As for rationing thats exactly what we have right now. Only difference is now the rationing is coming from corporate a**hat who is looking to make the biggest profit he can. As for providing health care for people with no insurance you are also already doing that. When a person with no insurance goes to the ER how do you think those costs are covered? You..me and everyone else who actually pays premiums and co pays. Also there are alot of health issues that could be treated for alot less money if a person had some basic care available instead of going to the ER for treatment which is 5 times more expensive than seeing some family practitioner . I guess everyone has his or her reason for being for or against HCR. I think if we a country can spend trillions on wars the least we should be able to do is figure out a way to provide some basic health care for out citizens when they are sick..

  47. Brad says

    Hey Brad, you’re also ignoring the fact that everybody dies no matter where they live and what kind of health care they have!

    As far as your other points, perhaps you could enlighten me how this bill will “ration” care and explain how that is different than what the insurance companies are doing now – which is flat out denying care if you have a pre-existing condition, cutting off your health care if you exceed a certain annual limit or flat out dropping you entirely at their whim when you are no longer profitable, with no penalty to them and no recourse for you. You place no faith in government yet you would rather blindly trust your life to the whims of a for-profit insurance company? To each, his own, I suppose.

    Just like all the other sheeple crying about this bill, you also reiiterate meaningless facts you’ve heard such that the bill is 2000 pages long. OMG, that’s too big, maybe I’ll be standing under it when it collapses and it will crush me! Perhaps if they didn’t double-space the bill or decreased the margins to .25 inch instead of .5 inch, they could have saved some paper without changing the content. Would that have made you more happy? As far as the debt, the CBO’s figures indicate that this bill will actually decrease the national debt over time and put a damper on the rate at which health care costs are rising.

    This is by far an imperfect bill but it does a lot of good things to help alot of people right away. Maybe if the republicans ever stop throwing hissy fits (and i say this as a registered republican) they can work together to craft some sensible amendments to clean it up a little and improve it over time.

    Finally, I’m happy that you (assumedly) have a job and health care. I do too. But you should not be so sure that you wouldn’t ever end up in a situation where you could benefit from this bill. Lurking inside you could be any kind disease. Cancer. Leukemia. Diabetes. And you could be fired from your job where you have health care, at any time, really. And then where would you find yourself? Unemployed, without health care, and with a pre-existing condition. It could be you.

  48. Mike says

    @andy

    Read the actual bill or the CBO cost estimates – plans are required to cover almost everything – high deductible plans will essentially be illegal.

    I don’t think the author of this article knows what she is talking about.

    Yeah, I’ve got until 2014 to figure out how to afford $1000/mo, that makes it OK.

  49. andy says

    @mike

    “The average premiums for those who buy insurance on their own would go up, however, by 10 percent to 13 percent. The reason is that benefits would become a lot better for this market under the bill. Also, most people buying their own coverage would receive subsidies that make their net costs for these plans substantially lower than they otherwise would be.”

    From factcheck.org. Link me to the bill wording if you know differently, as everything I can get on the subject doesn’t agree with your assessment.

  50. Chris says

    Brad: “Jennifer with all do respect it has nothing to do with NOT wanting to help others, and NO I don’t want to give the Government anymore of my money to waste. ”

    Yes, Brad, I agree there are Government (a.k.a. PUBLIC) inefficiencies, but must we ignore the inefficiencies (and greed) in the PRIVATE sector. Many well known non-profit charities today secretly charge 40-60% administrative expenses, taken out of our charitable donations. Hey, but we are getting our tax breaks for our donations, so no worries, right?

    Brad: “I really hate when people classify it as selfish to disagree with this over reaching 2,000 some page health care bill, that will put our kids in debt. ”

    Medical care is without a doubt a complicated subject. How can the legislation be otherwise?

    The CBO countless times as shown that this new Law will REDUCE the deficit by the end of the first decade and even more by the end of the second decade. I’m curious which generation of children will pay for the unnecessary Iraq War. Why is so much harder financially to take care of ourselves than lash out at foreign countries with our “Defense” spending?

    Brad: “But hey as long as your insurance is cheaper right?”

    Cheaper? No. I think we would all at LEAST want health care premiums to not increase dramatically faster then increases in income, like they have for the past two decades. Call me crazy, but it sounds like it would make more financial sense to try something different, right?

    Brad: “I think it could be said that the ones benefiting the most are selfish since mostly anyone is able to get health care already.”

    So the vast majority of the 40+ million people in he U.S. without health insurance are just choosing not to have health insurance but they could get if they wanted it?

    Brad: “You’re also ignoring the fact that people still die in other countries where the care is universal. ”

    I guess I was aware that Universal health care promised immortality.

    Brad: “It’s going to save a few at the expense of others so no lives will actually be saved.”

    So we will SAVE a few at the expense of others but no one will be SAVE? I’m just going to let that stand on it’s own with out comment. It speaks for itself.

    Brad: “Ever heard of rationing care?”

    I’ve heard of it. It happens today in the U.S. for decades now and the insurance company agents on the phone are the one-man “death panels” I hear so much about.

    Brad: “How can people (you) so blindly trust a Government that has proven to be most inefficient in other areas of finance and “helping” others. ”

    PUBLIC versus PRIVATE. The Private sector from banks to individuals has shown poor financial skills over the past decade. Why is that we should trust them over the State/Federal governments? Yes, State government who will run their Insurance exchanges.

    Brad: “What makes you think that them managing and overseeing “this” project will yield different results?”

    I quote Benjamin Franklin, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. ”

    Why should we continue with the same health care system which has annual premium increases that the middle class soon will no longer be able to afford. I say let’s try something different and if it doesn’t work, modify the plan as you go.

    Brad: “I’ll admit, the gift wrap sounds great but the package contained inside is pure crap. Read it!”

    I doubt you’ve read the bill at all. You expect us to believe that you read the 2,000 page bill? Oops, sorry I mean … LAW. You are far more likely to have been handed your talking points, told by the usual suspects like: Beck; Hannity; Palin; Rush; Rove; Chenney, etc.

    Brad, I think you need to sit down and take the shot in the arm. We’ll give you a lollipop and send you on your way, son. You’ll be smiling before long and you’ll forget you even had a shot.

  51. G says

    @ Mike,

    Mike, I think as someone above me responded there are provisions in the bill to help you pay if you are financially unable to come up with the cost of insurance.

    Also this question is to you and the others who seem to have issue with paying for insurance. Why is ok for me to have my premiums and co pays rise because people like would rather not buy insurance. If you fall down the steps and break you leg and end up in the ER the rest of us actually do pay for insurance are picking up your tab now. I don’t see why thats acceptable. But when someone asks you to pay for your own there is the grumbling from some people who feel they will not get sick or never have medical emergency. You and everyone else who opposes the mandate cannot predict something that you will never need medical care. Sounds like mandating insurance is the fairest way to address a problem to make things fair to everyone.

  52. Gordon says

    Jennifer, I agree with Brad. A major problem is that the government can’t do it because it is inherently inefficient: it breeds corruption and it has to spend a major percentage of OUR money just to regulate the mess.

    As someone put it, government run ( “socialized”) healthcare is like giving a transfusion from your right arm to your left arm, only you spill half the blood on the floor in the process. We are heading in the wrong direction.

    Take Medicare, for example. It is a complete financial disaster. Yes, it provides aide to our elderly, but the government has mismanaged Medicare so poorly that the cost is just staggering. We may not feel it now in our fake economy because we have been borrowing the money from the rest of the world to fund it, but one day soon we will. The outstanding debt on medicare – what the government owes to date that the WE taxpayers are going to have to pay for – is something like 30 TRILLION dollars. That’s more money than the US takes in from other countries per year 20 times over. We are in deep, deep, trouble financially.

    And that’s just Medicare. The government cannot even run a post office without bleeding money. As soon as government sticks its fingers into anything, costs go way up. This exact reason why health care costs so much now. For example, the government allows the AMA to control the supply of doctors; The government protects insurance companies from competition; government supports pharmaceutical companies research through NIH, CDC, NSF and grants to universities; the government supports the legal industries costly tort regulation of healthcare quality; lastly the government allows the american public, tax breaks, employer provided can overuse health care to the hilt. The problem is not lack of regulation or lack of government involvement.

    The status quo of building bigger and bigger government, which every administration on both sides of the isle have adhered to for a long time has bred a monstrosity so large it is sucking our economy completely dry. (Obama is no exception, he is just doing what Clinton and Bush have) If we don’t change course soon, any semblance of the standard of living (and standard of health care) we are now accustomed to will be impossible. We’ll become a 3rd class country.

    The deeper problem is, no one has a right to health care. The whole health care industry is fringed with the assertion that we can save lives. (and how covenant for their profits!) But this is nonsense: the doctor’s job is to ease suffering, not help us try to live forever. Mark Twain said, chasing after your health is like buying a cow that has gone dry. In the end, you will die healthy. That’s a shame because of what is lost in the middle: the society we have now is so crazed with trying to save life, we’re becoming incapable of living!

    • Kenni Judd says

      Medicare’s administrative expenses are miniscule, compared to private-sector insurance companies (even the “non-profits”). Its cost is high because so many people are enrolled, at this point in time when so much of our population is over 65. That will probably get worse before it gets better. But all of those enrollees, and their employers, paid into the fund.

      Those who just choose to save $$ by not having insurance cost those of us who do. And those who can’t get insurance (at least until 2014, if the law stays in place till then) shouldn’t just be left to die.

  53. G says

    @Gordon

    Like I was stated earlier. This is NOT GOVERNMENT RUN INSURANCE. That would have been the Public Option or a Single Payer system. The insurance is still being run by insurance companys.

    I also disagree that some how people who cannot afford health care some how not entitled to live?!? I think poor people should have the same chance to live as rich. Thats some messed up logic when it better to just let people die. Its might be one thing to keep someone alive on a respirator when there is pretty much zero chance of recovery. Buts its another to say ahh lets not treat that curable disease because you would just live longer when we know you are going to die someday. Talk about dealth panel..That pretty much is one.

    Another thing you left out of the post office issue is called EMAIL. How much revenue has been lost since the advent of the internet? I don’t think all the financial issues with the post office is just because its not ran correctly.People don’t mail letters like they used to. To be honest ever think about how much mail is still sent on a daily basis and it for the most part reaches its destination in a timely manner. While im sure there is always going to be the story of the guy whos package got lost but for the most part the post office does what it supposed to do. I personally have had more delivery’s screwed up by UPS than I ever have from sending something through the post office.

    Hey if you want to save money and shrink government. How about starting with the 2 pointless wars. Yes I said pointless. The amount of money spent will never be justified. We are never going to stop every evil doer who dislikes America. In fact your risk of getting killed in a Terrorist attack in this country before 911 was less than getting struck by lighting. I don’t see anyone in the government looking to provide every citizen with a personal lightning rod. But we can somehow justify spending trillions to kill 100 terrorists training on monkey bars in the middle of the desert. Waste of money!

  54. Mike says

    @andy
    Vague statements are useless, and one could argue they are just propaganda. Let’s analyze your quotes:

    “The average premiums for those who buy insurance on their own would go up, however, by 10 percent to 13 percent.”
    That is talking about the “average” – and I’ll assume then the “average” person has what I would call a “cadillac” plan – where almost everything is covered with a small co-pay. I am still getting completely screwed by this bill because I happen to be self-employed and not poor and don’t want a health plan where I pay a boatload of money every month for services I don’t use.

    “The reason is that benefits would become a lot better for this market under the bill. ”
    I don’t care if the benefits are “better” – I want fewer benefits at lower cost. Or at least not 3 to 4 times the cost I am paying now.

    “Also, most people buying their own coverage would receive subsidies that make their net costs for these plans substantially lower than they otherwise would be.”
    I guess people that don’t fall in the “Most” category get screwed. I think most people would call an $80k/yr family middle-class in “most” parts of this country, and they’re getting ZERO subsidies.

    These rough figures appear in many documents, for example page 2 of:
    http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10884
    “Overall, CBO estimates that premiums for Bronze plans purchased
    individually in 2016 would probably average between ” … ” $12,000 and $12,500 for family policies. ”
    and here is what is covered in the minimum plan for people over 30:
    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text
    SEC. 1302. ESSENTIAL HEALTH BENEFITS REQUIREMENTS.
    (a) Essential Health Benefits Package- In this title, the term ‘essential health benefits package’ means, with respect to any health plan, coverage that–
    (1) provides for the essential health benefits defined by the Secretary under subsection (b);
    (2) limits cost-sharing for such coverage in accordance with subsection (c); and
    (3) subject to subsection (e), provides either the bronze, silver, gold, or platinum level of coverage described in subsection (d).
    (b) Essential Health Benefits-
    (1) IN GENERAL- Subject to paragraph (2), the Secretary shall define the essential health benefits, except that such benefits shall include at least the following general categories and the items and services covered within the categories:
    (A) Ambulatory patient services.
    (B) Emergency services.
    (C) Hospitalization.
    (D) Maternity and newborn care.
    (E) Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment.
    (F) Prescription drugs.
    (G) Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices.
    (H) Laboratory services.
    (I) Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management.
    (J) Pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

    So, just about everything is covered, and somewhere in there I saw language explicitly requiring co-pays – not co-insurance, which would actually let people see the true costs and decide if they really needed that test or procedure.

  55. Mike says

    @G
    I’m assuming you’re talking to me and not some other Mike, but
    I don’t think you read my post – I am paying for insurance – I pay $300/mo premiums, pay for doctor visits out of pocket, and my high deductible plan covers anything big. I make sure I have enough in the bank to cover the high deductible “just in case”

    And because we make just over $80k/year, we get ZERO subsidies.

    If you want to mandate insurance, mandate insurance that makes people responsible for their health, and doesn’t drive costs through the roof.

  56. Mike says

    @andy
    An earlier post of mine is awaiting moderation – maybe cause it was too long or manybe due to urls included. In short, your quotes are vague and look like propoganda – yes some people will benefit but many hard working people will suffer disproportionately.

    See page 2 of http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10884
    for the $12,000 minimum cost and
    SEC. 1302. of http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/text
    for the minimum requirements. I’m done with this site.

  57. Gordon says

    G

    I completely agree with you about all the money spent on wars, of which we are also indebted to other countries for. That 30 trillion is just what we currently owe for Medicare alone, not to mention our outstanding debts for all the other government messes we have let them create. We can’t pay for it all.

    The problem is this just sticks government and us much deeper into the hole we already can’t get out of without severe consequences. This move is in the wrong direction because it does nothing to address the fundamental diseases plaguing our health care industry, which ARE caused by government involvement.

    Doing the same thing over and over, (only larger ), and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

  58. Mike says

    @andy
    Sorry for the potential dup posts everyone, apparently links make posts stuck “waiting for moderation” – so I’ll try one more time:

    In short, your quotes are vague and look like propaganda – yes some people will benefit but many hard working people will suffer disproportionately.

    See page 2 of cbo dot gov index 10884 for the $12,000 minimum cost of a bronze plan (catastrophic plans only available if you are under age 30) and see
    SEC. 1302 of bill hr 3590 available from a variety of sources including opencongress dot org.

    I’m done with this site, thanks for the discussion.

  59. says

    Not to mention. These tax dollars will also go towards abortion. Hope everyone is okay with that.

  60. G says

    @Mike

    I stand corrected. I did misread your post. Apologies. I do not know 100% of any subsides are available for you. But on the other hand if your insurance company wants to start raising your premiums they are going have to prove it is justified. I think there is a provision in the bill that a certain amount of you premiums is going have to go to actual medical costs. And if the insurer can not prove it they have to refund the over charges.
    There may some ways to bring down some of your costs by seeing what ends up being available to people when the insurance exchanges become available. For me personally who also makes around the same yearly income as you do might not see a whole lot in savings in cost. I never know when I am one illness or job loss away from being is the same boat as the guy who is working for $10 and hour and there i no way he is going to be able to pay for insurance for his family from out of pocket expenses alone. While the bill is by no means going to fix everything for everyone. I do think the positives out weigh the negatives over just let things continue like they are now. That is with insurance companies being able to drop and pick and choose who they insure and don’t insure at the drop of hat or when you actually get sick and need the insurance.

  61. Mike says

    @G
    Ask anyone on either side, insurance company profits only account for between 1% and 5% of health care costs. When they raise rates 39% it is not arbitrary, it is because hospitals, doctors, etc. are charging more, and people are demanding more tests, more procedures, etc. under their plans. Health insurance company stock has skyrocketed because of this bill, it is helping them not controlling them.

    I know there are problems with the current system, especially for the self-employed, but the bill makes things much much worse, not better. To say that “the positives outweigh the negatives” is easy for anyone to say that won’t have to pay at least $1000/mo for something they don’t want. Obama said if I like my health care I can keep it – a complete lie – anyone who buys into his rhetoric is going to end up getting burned sooner or later.

  62. Chris says

    “Ask anyone on either side, insurance company profits only account for between 1% and 5% of health care costs. ”

    It’s very easy to pay the top executives huge bonuses and count it as expenses reducing the “profit” to below 5%. It’s done in business every damn day.

  63. says

    This bill isn’t about helping the unfortunate, or bringing care to those who can’t afford it. It’s about the government taking more control of our lives. It forces people to have insurance, even the ones who don’t want it (like some college students). It takes away our freedom to choose! It’s the first step on the way to single payer health care and socialized medicine where the government will say which doctor you can go to, how long you have to wait, and they’ll tell doctors how much they will make.

    Some of you are saying that “only the taxes on those making over 200k will go up”. Ok, let’s put that aside as to whether that’s ok or not – but do any of you really think that premiums aren’t going to go up for those with private insurance? When they kill the ability for insurance companies to put caps on coverage, or to exclude people due to prior illness, or charge more to people who use more health care – of course rates are going to go up for everyone – except the ones who are unhealthy! So even though your taxes don’t go up, your rates will. And since the government can subsidize their own public health care plan up the wahoo, of course people are going to switch to the cheaper government plan, which will mean the insurance companies can’t compete and will die in the long run.

    And when health care becomes more affordable, guess what – more people go to the doctor for small things, meaning that your health care is more utilized and less available and health care will have to be rationed. Look at any of the countries that have socialized medicine – waiting periods of months to get a CT scan, see a specialist or have an important surgery. And NO, the health care ISN’T free, it’s just paid for in a more roundabout way – high taxes!

    Also, the fact that they’re trumpeting this whole “the bill reduces the deficit” just goes to show how tricky they can get with the numbers. They’ve left off certain provisions that were previously in the bill like the medicare payments”doc fix” that would have made it increase the deficit, because by leaving it out of the bill they could claim that it would reduce the deficit. The CBO numbers can only account for the things they’ve been sent in the bill, so garbage in, garbage out.

    I recently read a quote from 19th century Scottish historian Sir Alex Fraser Tytle:

    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy

    Sounds like we’re headed down that road.

  64. says

    @Mike
    BTW, doctors and hospitals raise their prices because their own insurance increase !

  65. Chris says

    People arguing this after the fact are wasting time. The highest court in the land has made their ruling. Don’t presume you know better about applying the law.

    Now let’s get “Citizen’s United” overturned to restore power to The People instead of just those with deep pockets.

    • ben says

      And of course the 5 Justices on the SC that voted for this have the right to tell 300+ million Americans what they have to do.

      You have a very skewed view of freedom my friend.

  66. ben says

    Good luck finding jobs from now on:

    http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/03/health-care-reform-and-small-business.html

    Companies with fewer than 50 workers won’t face penalties if they don’t offer insurance.

    Got a Company with 58 employees? 9 of them have to go.

    You people that have never ran businesses have absolutely no idea how devastating this is going to be to the employment rate and the economy in general.

    Employees will cost more. Employees will be let go to meet some random Federal Gov threshold. Cost of manufacturing and providing services will increase which will drive the price of everything higher.

    I don’t particularly care. I run my own business, pay my own insurance and have an adequate income to cover my needs.

    But for those of you that are barely scraping by now things just got a whole lot tougher. If you can even find / keep a job you will see your real wages plummet to cover this new Federal Tax.

    You will eventually get your illnesses treated and you will have plenty of time to recover because you will have no jobs to go to.

    TANSTAAFL

  67. Derrik says

    In 1977 healthcare cost were at 77 billion, by the year 2018 healthcare cost will exceed the 4.2 trillion mark. Can we really afford this? To quote Jackson Brown “Nobody rides for free”.

  68. John Ryder says

    i am lucky to be healthy, i have never been hospitalized, no major or even minor surgery, no broke bones ever, not even one stitch, over the past 13 years i have had insurance for one of those years, was a waste of money, i have saved @ 1000 dollars a year 12K dollars over that time period because i didnt have to buy insurance, because didnt need it, that money went toward, car repairs, buying a used car, paying bills when i got laid off, helping with other things when times were tough, so now i must pay for something that i still dont need because even at my age i am at great health, or a course pay a fine or tax and get nothing in return for that penalty, so health care hurts me doesnt help, i guess the Obama Admin would rather me have insurance and just have to skip a couple meals a month, or not eat at all, way to go socialists way to go !!!!!!!!!!!!

  69. Chris says

    @John Ryder

    You obviously don’t know how the new law works. You would know that you would not have to sacrifice eating a meal or two. Wow, that is so naive it boggles the mind of anyone who does know what the law is.

    Oh yeah, you didn’t know you weren’t going to get seriously ill over the past thirteen years and you should be even less sure over the next 13 years due to age. So basically you are gambling and if you did get sick and didn’t have insurance you could go bankrupt where siciety picks up the tab or the ER has to cover your ass in which, you guessed it, society picks up the tab. So the rest of us are paying for your sick a$$. Way to go taking care of your finances. Cover your ass with insurance so you don’t end up *socializing*the financial impact of your possible bad health.

    Stop gambling; I don’t want to pay for your stupidity.

  70. says

    I will not buy, I will not pay any tax. And the us goverment can kiss my ass.

  71. says

    What you published was very logical. But, consider this, suppose you were to write
    a killer headline? I am not suggesting your information is not good, but suppose you
    added a headline that makes people desire more?

    I mean How Will Health Care Reform Affect Your Wallet?
    is a little plain. You should peek at Yahoo’s home page and note how they create article headlines to grab people to click. You might add a related video or a related picture or two to get people excited about everything’ve got to say.
    In my opinion, it could make your blog a little bit more interesting.

  72. says

    I truly love your site.. Excellent colors & theme.
    Did you develop this website yourself? Please reply back as I’m looking to create my own site and would like to know where you got this from or what the theme is named. Kudos!

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  1. [...] money most paychecks. In the U.S., many jobs also come with the ability to get access to discounted health care plans. Additionally, there are employers that offer discounted childcare, discounted gym [...]

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